I just read a topic on the subject of Caliphate, it was about what people thought of a new Caliphate for the islamic world. So only for the Islamic world and not the whole world. What would your opinion be on this? Are you against such an idea or in favor of such an idea.
Personaly I would say IF, with a BIG IF, it was possible, which I think is not, it would be a good thing for us muslims to unite and help each other in good as well as in bad times. The distance between our muslim brothers in other countries is much bigger than it should be. Look at the Islamic countries in the Middle east, they are blessed with oil, but still the poor Islamic countries that do not have this black gold have to pay for it, and this is were I say were is our brotherhood.
I think you are mixing up many issues at the same time. Concerning the Caliphate issue, I don't think this is an idea that will work simply because even though Islam seems to unify Muslim countries, still those Muslim countries are very different, as an example, Morocco and Syria, do u think we are similar? our cultures are very different from each other, our perception of laws is different as well, u cannot have one entity governing over a huge area where people are different, the only common thing with the Middle Eastern countries and North African ones is Islam, besides this, nothing is similar, even the language, now don't tell me Arabic is our language, Moroccan dialect is our language and the Classical Arabic is something they teach us in school that we never use again later on without forgetting the huge berber population. On the other hand, if the purpose of having a single caliphate is to share oil among all Arab States then u simply do not need a caliphate to have this realized, you only need agreement, if a particular state that has oil wants to trade with morocco oil at a lower rate then that could be interesting, for instante Morocco and Algeria could have benefitted a lot from that, Algeria could give oil to Morocco and Morocco could give Agricultural products, instead of shipping it from Europe which costs a lot more, but again Agreement is important and Islam is not the only way to do it.
Sounds like a scary idea. Reminds me of fachism, imperialism, totalitarianism and all negative isms that exist. Moreover, all self-destructive Muslim kamikazeslike those who just exploded bombs in Casablanca dream of this, and I don't feel like agreeing with them about anything.
maybe you are right, but dont you think we should use the thing that binds us all to come closer to each other. I mean the distance between us is huge. I think we should have something like what UAE has or the USA. A system like EU could help. And offcourse it can not happen in just day it takes time for us or the next generation for that mather to get use to it and to adopt to it. Oil was just an example, it could help in demographic factors aswell, look at Lybia a huge country with alot of oil again but almost no people. The reason why I started it was for the fact that you can see these days how much we rely on the werstern powers(and they only use us). I think we should help each other and not rely on those powers that use us for their own benefits. It could also help in the technological sector as well as the education sector.
@ Shireen, I thought some people would see it like that, but that is not what I mean. First those who killed them selves in Casablanca cant be called muslims. What I mean has to do with Islam(which is a religion of peace not bombs). Something that uniteds us. Just look at the EU, they use religion to to unite them, if it wasnt religion Turkey would already be part of the EU. But Turkey will never be part of it.
Matjar.ma, the EU was not united by religion but by the idea that prosperity could stop intereuropean conflicts. Remember, before that, they've had two major conflicts that nearly annihilated the continent. As for Turkey, the muslim argument is recent and is more due to the recent bad image muslims are having and of course the end of the cold war which changed the whole geostrategic configuration.
I think it can be a good idea but as always the devil is in the details.
The Shiite already apply this model, they have clear hierarchy of religious leaders from the supreme leader (khaminei) to lower ranks ayatollah.
Other religions have this as well, catholics have the Pope, the catholic church with it's differents institutions and councils. The protestants also have their hierarchy.
Sunni Islam is completley disorganised, and this vacuum is filled by Saudi Arabia (the most backward country in the world), other institutions like al Azhar in egypt and self-proclaimed Imams who spent all their life studying the Kuraan and nothing else.
When we see the current mess, the caliphate can be a good idea indeed, it can have a moderating effect and can neutralise bad figures like ben laden and his cohort, though the term 'Caliphate' is a bit scary for non muslims.
Just to clear the air, I would like to say that this is my opinion as a Muslim and a Moroccan. I do not believe that the Muslim world is ready for a "moderate" global religeous leadership. The word Khalifat itself reveals a nostalgia of the past which is now closely associated with salafist movements. I am worried that religeous fanaticism is stronger than religeous moderation these days. Moreover Arab countries are not very familiar with the concept democracy, to say the least, so what will prevent a "khalifat" from believeing that he is God's representative on Earth? I see religeous dictatorship lurking behing this proposal.
Mr. matjar.ma, Turkey couldn't join the EU because of many factors, and one of those factors is that the government didn't want to recognize the invasion and genocide that the Ottoman Empire did to Armenia thats on one hand, on the other hand, I still don't see the purpose of having an Arab Nation. Remember this is what Nasser tried to do, he tried to unify the Arab World, in other words, eliminate Monarchies, Morocco happens to be one, and to be honest I really do not see myself, A Moroccan citizen governed by some non Arab leader. In addition, there are minorities in Arab countries, Egypt has a considerable population of Qoptic people, Moroccan has a Jewish one, how do you expect those people to be governed by a Muslim. The model of the US and the EU is very advanced and very related to democracy somehow, and as shireen said, we need to get more familiar with that concept. The US is a liberal democracy and that's what makes it the way it is today. I think that you should have a broader view of the world and think more globally than that because the world should not be divided according to religions. Furthermore, religion is a personal issue and it is not that easy to implement it within the government of a country. Saudi Arabia and Morocco do not have the same Criminal Laws, can you accept death penalties in Morocco? can you accept cutting thieves hands? well, I really love Morocco as it is now, what can be done is more Business and Trade opportunies between North African countries to make more profit and offer more jobs to people and not sme religious leader to screw up every good thing that has been achieved so far.
The issue of Armenia is not what they want you to believe it is. I am from the netherlands and i know how this people think, most of the people here hate islam. I can see this in their eyes and yes some of this if not all is for our selves to blame. But still the problem of Turkey is religion, its only what you read in the papers and see on tv when Turkey is in the news.
The issue of Criminal Laws is even in the US different for the different states. Someone above mentioned the Pope, I think thats a very good example of what I meant with this topic, and your are right the shia have it too (and you have to admit that it worked/is working for them). I think "we" sunni muslim need someone on top that can unite us, because we have just to many issues with our "selves". I mean how can it be that our neighbour hates us so much (algeria). We should try to strenghten eachother not weaken each other as it goes this days. Look at the Jews, THE perfect example of brotherhood(united by religion).
This is a perfect example of the Islamist Ideology thaught is Schools, the day someone else would be governing other that the Moroccan Royal Family, some Islamist Caliphate or you name it I'll migrate then somewhere else. If you live in the Netherlands it does not mean you know all about Turkey's situation, what you are saying is a a view completely influenced by the media. God did not say to Muslim to close their borders and live together without communicating with other religions and cultures. You live in the Netherlands how much do you know about the situation in Morocco? We are fine and elhamdoulilah happy with our governemnt and policies, being under the control of somebody who is not Moroccan will lead to Civil War. We should remain our identity of Moroccans, Islam is a religion, and religion is a personal issue between the individual and god.
@cranberry, I dont know why you would feel the need to attack me, i would suggest you reed better and than start posting. I did not say Morocco is bad or bad governt by the goverment. I think the goverment tries its best, unfortunately the economy isnt good (a good reason for this good be the corruption). I said I will say it AGAIN we could use our religion to bring us closer and be a reason to help eachother out. I also never said I know everything about Turkey's situation, I just said what the people and media talk about here in the NETHERLANDS when TURKEY is in the news. And as far as your sentence about God did not.... close their borders, thats just what I mean, thank you for say it that way. So plz if you cant give your opinion without attacking someone personal, dont post.
If you feel attacked, that is your problem, sorry about that, it's just makes me react when I read issues that seem so unrealistic, sorry if you felt I was rude towards you it wasn't my intention Concerning the readings, I would suggest you do more to have a broader view of the world, and once again, the economy is never going to be increased by a stronger brotherhood as you call it of Islamic countries. And last but not least, this forum is democratic, and I live in a democratic country and my opinion would be given as much as I want, in other words, I'll continue posting, if you don't like what I post, please don't read me it's as simple as this. Cheers,
As I said, post your opinion please do say, but if you read what I said, you will see that I said do not post if you cant give your opinion without attacking someone personal.
About the topic being unrealistic or not, that is not the issue, offcourse I know it wont happen today or tomorrow or even at all for that mather. Its about your opinion if it would be the case and you have to make a choise between yes or no. And thats what this topic is about.
At your point that the economy is never going to increase with a stronger brotherhood, you might be wrong about that. I will give you just one argument and that is that the market will grow from what is it 31million to 330million(counting only the arab's). Leaving the oil etc out the argument.
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